Comments on: Comic Update: Manners After the XHTMLacolypse

By: Joseph S.

Joseph S. — Fri, 07 Aug 2009 20:11:21 +0000

Is there a consensus that the “F&%k the foundries” post was reasonable and well pointed? I personally thought it was driving a nail with a bulldozer. I have a lot of respect for type designers and foundries, and think that a compromise that is lucrative to both parties can be reached… instead of the smash and grab approach.

By: Kyle Weems

Kyle Weems — Sun, 12 Jul 2009 18:14:42 +0000

@Shelley & Adrianne – I agree that a lack of diversity in technology-related decision-making bodies is a serious concern. Although it’s possible they’ll devise a standard that works for everyone, without a plurality of views it’s more likely that they’ll fail to notice biases based on their shared background.

Adrienne, I definitely agree that behavior online is often a problem due to a lack of circumspection. I wonder if manner classes could be made mandatory in technology-related college degrees.

By: Adrienne

Adrienne — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 17:43:22 +0000

@Kyle–you’re right, the older generations always decry the erosion of morals and behavior of the young ;-) And truly, the young folks I know are, as you say, nice polite people. I’d actually go so far as to say that most 20-somethings I know are more polite than most 40-somethings I know. My own observation is that online communication lacks the non-verbal clues that help our face-to-face encounters work smoothly. Subtleties and nuance just don’t come through very well. One can’t get the “vibe” of a person very well online, unless the people involved have pretty well-developed language skills.

I’m as guilty as anyone of reacting strongly on a subject about which I am passionate. I do, however, try to work through that reactionary phase into one where I can lay back a bit and see the other person’s point of view. That’s the sort of thing that, hopefully, comes with maturity.

Which all points out to me the importance of being a bit more circumspect online than one might think is necessary. If we all communicated as though we were “speaking” to our grandparents, we might avoid some of the nastier flames.

Love your squirrel, btw. Looks a lot like one in my yard.

By: Shelley

Shelley — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 12:08:01 +0000

Paul and Adrienne both have points.

I recently wrote on the HTML WG list that from what I can see, the people making decisions for HTML 5 are about as lacking as diversity as possible: twenty somethings, guys, same educational background, and even similar as to geographical background.

Good…if the only audience for HTML 5 is able bodied twenty something guys with a computer background, who have only worked either for standards organizations or browser vendors. Following my posting of this is when the dozen or so took me to the woodshed and to task for my “attitude” and tone of writing. Not before, right after.

Truth hurts.

By: Kyle Weems

Kyle Weems — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 00:35:14 +0000

@Adrienne – Also, thank you for commenting, and I’m glad to hear you enjoyed the comic!

By: Kyle Weems

Kyle Weems — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 00:34:36 +0000

@Adrienne – I agree that tech culture is currently male-dominated. I agree that male techies can be jerks. I don’t believe, however, that the majority of them are. 9 out of 10 people I’ve met in that category are in fact very nice, polite people. Granted, they get a fire in them when it comes to speaking about technologies they favor, but I assume that zeal is common in any hobbyist or professional.

There is a vocal minority of jerks in any group, especially online ones, so it’s a shame that they create the perception that they’re the rule and not the exception. I just disagree with that perception.

That’s where my response was coming from.

I agree that it often seems that manners are deteriorating with younger individuals. But then, I assume our parents or grandparents thought the same of us when we were younger.

By: Adrienne

Adrienne — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 23:42:04 +0000

Kyle, I hope you’re being a tad ironic about Paul’s comment, because I think Paul does indeed have a point. Online debate is sometimes shockingly rude. Perhaps it’s not really because the technology culture is male-dominated (which it is, by the way)–perhaps it’s more that the technology culture is one that has allowed, and even encouraged, the erosion of behavior [manners] originally designed to prevent people from gouging out one another’s eyes over minor disagreements.

I’ll add in the age factor. I’m old enough to have grown up in a time when manners weren’t considered silly, or uptight, or only a tool of satire. I’m actually not that surprised that the web standards community got so het up about this issue, just a bit sad. I kinda hoped that it was a community of professionals that could avoid the worst behavior of the larger online world.

Fortunately we have mentors like Jeremy, Jeffrey, and John. Men who are articulate, knowledgeable, and patient. And I loved your comic.

By: Kyle Weems

Kyle Weems — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 23:13:14 +0000

@Jason – I like your last sentence. Mind you, I think Mark’s posts can be focused in the right direction some of the time (such as the Foundries one), but they’re often too hot under the collar. And when they get personal, well, then it undermines the value of his position.

@John – I’m really glad you liked it!

@Paul – I don’t see any compelling reason to take the topic and turn it into an attack against a specific gender or the sub-culture.

By: Paul

Paul — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 23:02:28 +0000

Color me surprised: a male-dominated technology culture that exists in virtual space has issues with interpersonal and communication skills, and being able to make sound business decisions based on end user requirements instead of preferences and ideologies.

By: John 'mad' Allsopp

John 'mad' Allsopp — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 21:59:28 +0000

I am a bit of a stickler for manners! you got me in one. Tres Amusante.