Comic Update: Opera’s Childish Antics
May 11, 2009I don’t need to write too much about this particular topic, as I’ve ranted about it in the past, but I couldn’t help but notice Andy Clarke’s micro-rants on Twitter about Opera’s recent bad behavior towards Microsoft (see here, here, here, here, here and even here for some samples of his thoughts). I was hoping to see a blog post manifest from him that I could read while laughing deeply, perhaps even shooting milk from my nose. Alas, Andy’s better sense took hold and he did the smart thing and went and watched Star Trek.
I also saw Star Trek. It was good. It was better than good. Go watch it, you’ll love it. I promise.
As it stands, I’ll take a swing or two in his place. First, let me direct you to today’s comic featuring Andy Clarke, wherein a couple of cheap shots are made at Opera’s expense. Then, continue reading.
First, I’m aware that browser usage statistics are like a dark art, much akin to necromancy and astrology, where accuracy isn’t really achievable. But the fact is (and take a look at Wikipedia’s page on the topic) that Opera according to some of these browser usage sources does in fact have less users than Netscape.
That’s right, there’s still people using Netscape. How scary is that? I wonder if they think grunge is alive and watch reruns of Family Matters while downloading websites on 14kbps modems. And just to reiterate, there’s more of these people (according to some sources) than there are people using Opera.
Beyond that, Google Chrome is the new hot browser in town and has already exceeded Opera’s user base in less than a year. That’s right, less than a year.
Look, I’m not saying it’s the number of users that count. After all, IE6 is utter rubbish and it’s still being used by too many people out there. What I am saying is that instead of wasting your company’s public image whining about the fact that Microsoft is doing us all a favor and forcing IE8 updates over their update system, you could be spending time looking at your own browser and figuring out why among other things a browser that has been dragged along for a decade by AOL then finally shot in the head (aka, Netscape) still has more users than your product.
Instead of making absurd suggestions that your competition serve your product via their update service, maybe you could look at Google Chrome and devise how it so rapidly out-paced you in such a short period of time?
Microsoft’s browser, even its newest version, isn’t even close to the coolest browser on the market. I don’t like Internet Explorer, and I only use it to check website compatibility in my job. But I don’t use Opera either, and that’s because (among other reasons) it has thus far convinced me (and the rest of the world) that it’s not worth the effort of installing and using rather than Firefox, or Safari, or the other web standards-compliant browsers on the market. It’s enough to make me wonder why we consider Opera part of the Big Four (now the Big Five). At this rate, with even terminated browsers giving Opera a run for the money, should we expand that name to the Big Six?
Is Opera a good browser? Yes. If that’s not the reason that it’s being ignored, than what is? Perhaps a lack of add-on support. I’ve always felt that Opera’s too busy telling people how to surf the web, and not spending enough time figuring out the features people want. Firefox isn’t popular on accident.
But I’ll tell you the number one reason why I don’t use Opera. It’s because of the company’s public behavior with their legal actions and petulant whining. The rank-and-file employees are talented people creating a worthwhile (albeit, not standout) product. But the big shots on top cost the company their credibility every time they make a cheap, transparently spiteful shot at the current market leader.
And lest I let the others off the hook, shame on Mozilla and Google for getting involved with the EU nonsense. Focus on your products, not on begging the government to get people to install your browsers for you.
I think the ONLY reason Opera is still includes at part of “The Big N” is because it has a standards compliant rendering engine. And the only reason it’s worth thinking about as rendering engine is because it’s a fairly decent mobile browser. If Opera suddenly started using WebKit or Gecko, no one would care about them anymore.
I actually find more annoying bugs in my css render in Opera than IE6. And I can’t target Opera.
That’s all.
Carry on.
What keeps me from using Opera over another browser is the amount of “cutting and cleaning” I have to do each time I install it in order to get it to a simple and usable state.
It’s like uninstalling shareware from a newly bought Windows laptop. A second big reason is the look, there’s something about Opera that makes it stand apart from the Operating System you’re using. It simply doesn’t fit with any system I’ve tried it on.
Now in their defense: I really like their attention to detail, and most of the innovations they make do make it to the mainstream browsers, so I appreciate their efforts and I think all of us who use alternative browsers should as well.
I think the path forward for browsers is to have a minimalistic interface, a-la Chrome or Safari, and then the user can built up from there in order to have the customized experience he wants. With Opera, you get it all from the start, whether you want it or not, and that’s what kills it for me. Until the day they realize that “less is more” I think they’ll continue to fight to keep their <1% market share.
Since moving to the Mac I use Safari for browsing, Firefox for js development and Opera every now and then for a change. Previously on Linux I used Opera nearly full time for years. Not only was it a fast browser, I found their email client a better solution than anything else available for Linux. Wish I could give some feedback on Chrome, but google decided to blow off the Apple community :(
I have to admit: I tried Opera on my mac laptop for about a week. It’s supposed to be faster than Firefox, right? (With all my addons anyway). And then Firefox picked up the one thing I liked about Opera, the ability to have a pick of your bookmarks on your homepage and… voila. I haven’t touched the thing since. At least, not for anything other than compatibility testing.
Not to mention, for my Windows viewing pleasure, Chrome came standard with a similar feature. I feel a bit bad for Opera at this point.
http://www.codeweavers.com/services/ports/chromium/ isn’t Chrome, but it’s close.
I’m going to say it: I generally don’t like Opera users as much as I don’t like the company’s aforementioned antics. Opera users tend to be extremely fanatical about their browser and when something doesn’t work exactly as they might expect, they are quick to turn on their flamethrowers. Frankly, they remind me very much of the elitists you find hanging around forums for Linux users (not that everyone who frequents those forums are elitists, but they are very much there).
I agree with just about everything you’ve said here–but I definitely add that Opera users can be as obnoxious as the company leaders.
I think it’s a lovely browser, but until I can synch it with my FF bookmarks, it can’t be my mainstay. And I’ve never figured out the magic mouse movement stuff. I just don’t think that way, I suppose.
Comments above tout a less-is-more approach that is built up by plugins…but I hate plugins. I hate having to think about them, I hate having to look for them, I hate having to install them, and I hate having to update them.
But I do have a lot of lingering affection for Opera. The thing that got me was the built in e-mail and feed-reader. I hated having to open Thunderbird next to Firefox (or Outlook next to IE). One of Opera’s distinct downsides is that it has always required a significant amount of tweaking for me to get it how I want. It’s as bad as those dozen plugins I feel I “need” in Firefox.
As mentioned, Opera has one of the most standards compliant rendering engines on the market. I think that if you have more problems with CSS in Opera than IE, it isn’t a “problem” with Opera, but a sign that your CSS-writing-habits are geared toward rendering in IE. Back during the browser wars I almost never had problems with Netscape vs. IE, because I was in the habit of writing my nested-nested-nested-nested-nested tables in ways that worked cross-browser. For a while I used Opera as my front-line tester and found I experienced less trouble that way (especially with Safari on Mac). Each browser has its own particular frustrations for me, though, and Opera is no exception.
These days I use Firefox most of the time–because my workplace favors IE and, frankly, Firefox is the only other browser I can get away with. Over time I find myself moving away from any particular browser and using online applications like Gmail, Google Reader, etc. to manage my e-mail, feeds, and bookmarks. I use so many different computers that I don’t want to configure software in 6 different places! So it’s gotten to a point that on a given day I will often use 3 different browsers for at least an hour. Just whatever’s open for whatever reason I opened it.
But, ya know, I think Chrome’s popularity has a lot more to do with it being Google than anything about Chrome itself. I’m not sold on Chrome, anyway, and didn’t even download it for testing prior to last month. How many IE users use IE for decisive reasons and how many use it just because it comes installed on their computer?
I’ve never liked smear campaigns–remember MCI vs. AT&T in the early 90′s? Left a bad taste in my mouth. Yet criticism of Microsoft/IE slips right by me–perhaps because it’s so widespread and I tend to agree. *shrug* Excessive arrogance and negativity is definitely not attractive in people or companies. ;-)
It’s a good reason for me to dislike Apple. :-D
Allright, I’m usually an asshole who doesn’t forgive a company mistake, I’ve been a vocal critic of choices made by Opera asa, I agree with the lack of os integration and a lot of other stuff.
BUT.
Opera faces 4 main opponents and none on a pure software quality ground:
Microsoft has a predominant position and a terrific exposure, to the point that IE is used until people get *revealed* about an alternative
Firefox had both the Netscape Bump, the Google Bump and the FLOSS Nutjobs Bump, somehow it got marketed as being the next best thing after Sex and Cocaine while still having a VERY buggy Gecko in version 2, altough the interface was cleaned in the passage from Mozilla suite -> Firefox, it was nothing innovative, just a clone of IE with some other feature.
Safari had the Apple Bump, and we all know that there are planty of people who would buy an iPencil for 400$, I’m not saying all Apple users are fanboy, I’m say there are a lot of Apple fanboys, and while Webkit is a nice product (who despoiled the KHTML project to be created actually, read the KHTML blog for info about it) and Safari is quite fitting on a mac os, other projects like Shiira showed us how much better can one do with the tools at hand. It was also marketed as being an innovator in many features that have been pioneered by someone else.
Chrome is being plugged in EVERYWHERE by Google, and while it’s more of an OS for thin clients han a browser (its way of managing the memory is not how an app works, it’s how an OS works) it got exposure, it works and does a decent job, personally I dislike its interface, I dislike tabs in the place of the title bar, they are inconsistent with the rest of the OS, which is why I also disapproved the change in Safari4, but at least Chrome has a slightly higher bar when not maximized, providing a visible handle to move the window.
No wonder Opera is having a hard time, this is competition competing on a totally irrelevant ground, if Opera were to get Paris Hilton or the Jonas Brothers to plug them in during whatever event they would get a huge share increase, but is that ethical marketing? I don’t think so.
Also, I’m sorry to say that, I really am, but Andy Clarke really needs to re-read the declarations, just like Hicks said.
Lie: “We’re concerned both about the bundling of IE with Windows, and about Microsoft using Windows Update to reset user choice,”
He doesn’t mean that Windows|Microsoft Update shouldn’t upgrade IE6|7 to IE8 for people who use it, he is complaining that when you do update, your default browser setting gets replaced with IE8.
How is that fair?
Also that accusation is pushed forward by BOTH Mozilla, Opera and Google, and while Opera is being mocked on, no one complains about Mozilla and Google.
Hakon Wium Lie is a very smart person, that doesn’t make him perfect, he has made mistakes in the past and will make in the future, but before actually accusing him, check twice. It might be a setup done by bad reporters who surround actual quotes with personal opinions.
I’m not saying do not complain about Opera, DO complain, DO dislike it if you don’t enjoy it, but be honest with yourself and with the rest of the world about it.
And if you feel extra generous, maybe tell the Opera people what do you miss while using Opera, and what would make do the switch. The worse thing that could happen is that Opera gets some share and the competition gets pushed harder for innovation and polish.
Competition is ALWAYS good, NEVER support monopolies, be it from Microsoft, Mozilla, Apple, Google or Opera. Having multiple choices that rank up pretty much at similar quality levels is a benefit to all of us. Specially if they all use open standards.
@Jeff – I agree that Opera’s sole standout feature is its high standards compliance. But time and again we see proof that standards alone aren’t enough to sell a product.
@Marco, Michael, and Janae – I agree that I prefer a browser that starts slim and lets you pick and add-on the features. I wish Firefox was slimmer, but it’s closer in that direction of add-on support I crave than others (although Chrome will likely give it a good run for its money when it starts supporting add-ons).
@absolethe – Hands down, it’s the nasty behavior that’s Opera’s biggest problem. And I agree that Apple’s anti-PC campaign for the past couple years has really left a bitter taste in my mouth. I’m not a Windows apologist, but I prefer vendors that concentrate on promoting themselves rather than slinging mud at their foes.
@Madness – Let’s start with add-on support and integrating the design of the browser better with the OS its running inside (Safari and Chrome also annoy me with that one).
And I don’t give a damn about how small of a player you are, being civil isn’t something you get to set aside. I’m aware of the focus of what Mr. Lie wanted, but at the same time he was pushing for Microsoft to push Opera’s software with their service. Seriously? Why don’t we get Apple’s update service to push Firefox for me while we’re at it.
This is a matter of “synergy” and when I say that word I feel like Liz Lemon at that CEO meeting (30 rock).
I’m all for separation of OS and software packets (also, church and state) so I think that the sinergy between an OS and an application should be kept minimal. The OS should provide APIs for all the apps to use the same way, no special treatments, no hardwired embeddings.
This is something I hold true for any situation, be it a telcom company offering me a chance to separate my voice line from my internet line instead of prepackaged bundles, or software stuff.
So, apple update service should do what it is advertised to do, update stuff, not push further stuff, it’s borderline spamming.
Of couse I’m a utopia loving idealistic youngster, in the real world people plays dirty.
So when Opera, Mozilla and Google play dirty, which we admittedly allowed by acknowledging the ‘real world status’, why do we complain? Microsoft abuses its position, that’s pretty much obvious to anyone, so the magical trio strikes back, of course they do strike hard, the hardest possible, what’s ‘nasty’ about it?
To me, it’s standards compliance is neither here nor there. I use it cos, as absolethe said, it’s an email client, feedreader and web browser all rolled into one. It’s also often the innovator in browser features:
and that’s often the way it goes; Opera develops a feature, and then someone will develop an extension for it for Firefox (or it eventually gets built into the core build), e.g. speeddial, password wand, all-in-one sidebar, tab session saver, mouse gestures.
One reason I consider Opera one of the Big Five is that they have one of the most pervasive mobile browser deployment, and have had for many years. Also, in my experience, they are the vendor most committed and active in Web standards, including W3C… which is not the only Web standards game in town, but certainly one of the most important (I may be biased ^_^). Hands-down, they have put more resources into browser-focused W3C working groups than any other vendor (and probably any two other browser vendors). Not to downplay the contributions of others, but Opera goes out of its way to play nice, to seek out and hire the most dedicated Web professionals to participate in standards, and to bring their innovations for consideration as W3C specifications. A lot of the work going on at W3C just wouldn’t happen without Opera.
They also have the best SVG support in general (some specific SVG features are better in other browsers, but Opera has the most comprehensive and performant support). For me, this is pretty important.
But I totally agree about the browser extensions… I like to be able to customize my browser more than Opera allows. Mind you, I’ve written several Firefox extensions, and Mozilla’s extension architecture could definitely use some work.
I don’t hate Opera for being a bit whiney now and again. Afterall, a bit of (perhaps childish) whining from a small company like Opera is not half as bad as the bordering-on-illegal business manoeuvres of the company they’re whining about. And, agaist what you might call childishness–and I might call opportunism–I think we must place the years of work Opera has done to support web standards and browser choice in general.
I’ve tried really hard to use Firefox instead of Opera. Firefox 3 rapidly caught up with (and possibly overtook) Opera in terms of speed and compliance. But I just remain hooked on the blend of features in Opera. I admit I spend some time stripping a new install down to the minimalism I prefer, but this takes considerably less time than installing the 5 or 6 modules I’d need Firefox to have to support my workflow–and at this time, it only “comes close” to supporting my workflow. There are a few to many wrinkles for me to switch.
I think the reason Opera misses out on market share is the fact that it’s proprietory, combined with the fact that Opera only make the browser–they can’t push it from another product with massive market saturation, such as Windows, OS X, or Google. Firefox benefited from a leg-up in market share from Mozilla/Netscape, and the fact that it has a community development model has kept it buoyant and expanding. In the eight years I’ve been using Opera, I’ve seen Firefox catch up rapidly. Opera has constantly innovated, but Firefox can replicate that fast and build on it, due to sheer numbers of participants. The open-source model is simply proving that it’s capable of moving quicker.
Opera’s proprietory model has certainly led to very high quality-control and focused development. But with Firefox, Chrome and Safari all sitting on top of open-source engines, and leveraging massive developer communities, I think Opera needs to begin to open up. Indeed, I think it’s the closed-nature of their development that accounts for their continued low market-share, not their occassional silly games and publicity stunts.
Is your anger with Opera because they don’t have features that people want to use? Do you never use tabbed browsing, speed dial, session-based browsing? They’re all features that other browsers borrowed from Opera, presumably because people want to use them.
Is your anger because, according to the stats you cite while acknowledging they’re flawed, Opera has a low market share? Note that Google Chrome, Firefox are also complaining to the EU.
Is your anger because Opera has not been pushed aggressively by Google on all of its web properties, which are amongst the largest in the world?
Is your anger because they complained to the EU that they believed Microsoft to be behaving anti-competitively and now the EU are doing what any responsible “government” would do and investigating that complaint?
Is your anger because Opera is based in Norway, and so is the only browser that is inside the EU’s jurisdiction, so the only one that could make a complaint. (Google and Mozilla are not inside the EU, but were quick enough to support a complaint once it was made).
Is your anger because you believe that Microsoft should be able to behave however it wants, anywhere it wants?
Or is your anger because you needed comic fodder for your site? Nothing wrong in that, but it shouldn’t masquerade as genuine insight.
A blogger whining about Opera’s whining. How quaint.
I guess Mozilla and Google are allowed to whine without people whining about their whining? There’s no whining about Mozilla and Google’s whining in this blog, even though they are whining about the exact same thing Opera is whining about.
@Doug – Opera obviously has provided a lot of good to the web development community. I don’t deny that, and I certainly hope I didn’t strike a tone implying that their product and service to the web community was substandard. What I’m saying though, is that certain types of behavior from its higher-ups end up wasting the currency of goodwill that they’ve earned through their actions. I’d like to see the day when Internet Explorer is not the leading browser (unless, of course, they continue to improve it and it somehow becomes the best of the crop), but Opera won’t have an easier time getting their market-share to improve if they’re putting a sour taste in others mouths. I for one do wish that the other browsers had as good SVG support as Opera does (as just one example of what the browser has to offer), as it’s something I’m growing more and more interested in. However, it’s the lack of browser extension support that is the biggest offense when it comes to the Opera feature set for me.
@Mark – I think you nailed the issue when it comes to Opera’s ability to get converts. Opening up their product a bit to community contribution could help provide a sense of buy-in from developers that would otherwise skip over it to use Firefox.
@HTMLeopard & whining – I don’t take anonymous trollers too seriously, but I’ll try responding to you anyhow. Leopard: My “anger” (too strong a word to describe my disappointment with them) is solely due to the fact that Opera is resorting to these sort of tactics. Microsoft’s past or present behavior, regardless of how bad it might be, doesn’t somehow make Opera’s actions less reprehensible. I’ve never bought into the “He did something wrong, so now I can” mentality. Whining: In addition to being “a blogger” I’m a hard-working member of the web development community who has to deal with browsers and their numerous quirks on a daily basis. I expect a lot from these browser vendors, and although IE (for example) isn’t living up to what it needs to be, I’ll be quick to call Opera to task for dipping its toe into the petty pool. Also, as you’ll note, I mentioned Google and Mozilla at the end of this post. They’re not the initiators of this nonsense, but I’m saddened to see they’ve signed onto this sort of tactic.
When a monopoly abuses its power, is it not reasonable for the competitor most affected by this abuse to report the problem to a governing agency? If they don’t, who will?
Keep in mind that there are multiple ways that Microsoft’s monopoly hurts other browsers:
1. The obvious, being pre-installed makes people less aware of alternative browsers, and gives users little incentive to try another.
2. By being a de facto standard for so long, many websites decided to only support IE and its non-standard rendering. This means other browsers have had to reverse-engineer IE’s workings so sites will appear up as expected. All extra time, money and resources that only non-IE browsers have to spend.
3. The same rendering issues have led to many intranet sites based on IE-only behaviour, causing companies to stick with the browser. Since generally alternate browsers can’t even modify their codes for these sites (since they have no access to them), there’s even less they can do to compete in this situation.
4. Since users are used to sites always working in IE, all it may take is running into one bad website in an alternative browser to make them switch back. Sure, that’s mostly the website’s fault, but it’s IE’s monopoly and non-standard practices that has led to situation alternate browsers have to deal with today.
When you consider all these issues that these browsers have to deal with, is it really that petty and childish for them to issue a complaint against monopoly abuse?
“What I’m saying though, is that certain types of behavior from its higher-ups end up wasting the currency of goodwill that they’ve earned through their actions.”
Apparently these types of behavior are perfectly acceptable for Mozilla and Google, since Opera is being singled out here. Quite amusing.
“Opera’s ability to get converts”
Opera has 40 million desktop users now. They grew by 55% in 2007, and 67% in 2008. Opera is getting new users fast, and the growth is apparently accelerating.
“doesn’t somehow make Opera’s actions less reprehensible”
There you have it, ladies and gentlemen. Reporting a crime is reprehensible.
“I mentioned Google and Mozilla at the end of this post. They’re not the initiators of this nonsense”
Wait, so Google and Mozilla get a “whine for free” card? Why?
And what about Google’s antitrust complaints against Microsoft? I guess that’s OK since it’s Google!
The hypocrisy is strong with this one…
By the way, I notice that Kyle Weems didn’t really address one single point HTMLeopard made.
The market share claims are from Net Applications, a company known for lying about their statistics. They have pushed Opera down to 0,1 something several times. Opera actually had something like 5% market share a few years ago. Net Applications cut it down to 0,1 something overnight! The same thing happened when Opera started approaching 2% again.
And let’s not forget the time when Net Applications claimed that Chrome had a higher market share than Opera despite the fact that Google reported only 10 million Chrome users, while Opera reported 30 million active Opera users!
And what about HTMLeopard’s questions about why you are whining about Opera reporting a crime?
Should a citizen not report a crime when he sees one? Is that it?
Should Microsoft be able to keep breaking the law without consequences?
Indeed, I’d like to see a point by point response to HTMLeopard’s comment.
It’s only whining when Opera does it, not when Mozilla does it:
http://blog.lizardwrangler.com/tag/ec/
No hypocrisy what so ever here. Nope. None what so ever.
@tripper/whining/wwwwwww – Regardless of which identity you choose to use, I’d like you to note my prior comment. In particular the bit about responding to anonymous trollers.
I’ve mentioned in brief my opinion on Mozilla’s and Google’s role in the issue. I’ve also made it clear that I’m not pro-Internet Explorer. However, I don’t support Opera resorting to anti-social behavior simply because one of their competitors is doing the same.
I think you’ve made your views clear with the existing comments you’ve made. Thank you for your contribution. No need to hop identities to hammer your point home.
@Mark Gibbens – 100% agreed. :-) I have to strip down Opera and I’ve never used some of it’s more interesting features (like voice or mouse gestures), but I do love many things about it. Like you, I don’t blame them for being assertive with this suit–I actually think the suit makes sense.
But I also definitely agree with Kyle that a company can easily overstep the line from assertive honesty into mudslinging (which I just don’t like). I don’t know if Opera’s CEOs have done that, I haven’t read enough to have an opinion, merely a theoretical stance.
I’m locking this thread due to an Opera enthusiast who keeps posting harassing comments anonymously (great way to sell your point, pal). Sorry to the others in this discussion.